Jay's Best Verse

I was talking to my homegirl reminiscing about Biggie over the flick and we came to the conclusion that "Victory" is his best verse (PURE COOKED CRACK! ) As far as Nas, "Verbal Intercourse" on Cuban Linx was his best IMO, or damn near anything from Illmatic.

But what is Jay's best verse, I mean lets be honest dude is arguably THE GOAT and he's dropped SOOO many jewels that's it's hard to choose just one, IMO. So what's Jay's best verse???

TonyAlmighty wrote:

But what is Jay's best verse, I mean lets be honest dude is arguably THE GOAT and he's dropped SOOO many jewels that's it's hard to choose just one, IMO.

Jay-Z will never be mentioned before Pac or Big amongst the general consensus. That takes nothing away from him as an artist, but as for "Greatest of All Time", you'll rarely & possibly never hear his name mentioned before those two outside of NYC. I don't even know if you could even get away with even saying that in BK.
You may hear it from someone young in the game, but they don't have any credibility and got into it too late.


~Goodz~

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Jay-Z will never be mentioned before Pac or Big amongst the general consensus. That takes nothing away from him as an artist, but as for "Greatest of All Time", you'll rarely & possibly never hear his name mentioned before those two outside of NYC. I don't even know if you could even get away with even saying that in BK.
You may hear it from someone young in the game, but they don't have any credibility and got into it too late.

Maybe down there in Northern Mexico, but the general consensus is that yes Jay is mentioned as one of the greatest, defintely. Now you can't go into BK saying that obviously cause of Big, but BK is only one of the boroughs and doesn't speak for the whole state. Sorry, but don't mention Pac to me, I'm talking about lyrics, flow and voice, NOT influence. Pac was overrated as an emcee, POINT BLANK. Is he the most INFLUENCIAL emcee, definetly, was he one of the best, not at all, dude's not even top 10. Yeah I know ya'll all love pac, blach, blah, but lets cut the bs and keep it gully, dude was overrated.

So back to my original question, what do you think was Jay's best verse my dude?

TonyAlmighty wrote:

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Jay-Z will never be mentioned before Pac or Big amongst the general consensus. That takes nothing away from him as an artist, but as for "Greatest of All Time", you'll rarely & possibly never hear his name mentioned before those two outside of NYC. I don't even know if you could even get away with even saying that in BK.
You may hear it from someone young in the game, but they don't have any credibility and got into it too late.

Maybe down there in Northern Mexico, but the general consensus is that yes Jay is mentioned as one of the greatest, defintely. Now you can't go into BK saying that obviously cause of Big, but BK is only one of the boroughs and doesn't speak for the whole state. Sorry, but don't mention Pac to me, I'm talking about lyrics, flow and voice, NOT influence. Pac was overrated as an emcee, POINT BLANK. Is he the most INFLUENCIAL emcee, definetly, was he one of the best, not at all, dude's not even top 10. Yeah I know ya'll all love pac, blach, blah, but lets cut the bs and keep it gully, dude was overrated.

So back to my original question, what do you think was Jay's best verse my dude?

I see you have a biased opinion from your response. As I mentioned in mine, I wasn't attacking Jay-Z and that view takes nothing away from him as an artist. I'm just trying to give you an idea of the rest of the country outside of that little island you stay on called New York. As much as you hate to hear it Almighty, this country is not about New York. Let's not forget Pac has and had a big following in the South, Midwest and the West, just as with Big in the same areas. To say that Pac was over rated and doesn't fall into the the top 10, is a bit of a reach, and sounds like sour grapes. That's like me coming out saying..."Mann...Jay-Z sucks!" Pure 100% sour grapes. But you won't hear that from me, b/c I have a appreciation for all music and artist. But I can respect your opinnion though.

Jay-Z is nice, but doesn't fall in the category as an all time lyracist. Honestly....I don't see Jay messing with Face, Common, Andre Benjamin aka 3 Stacks, when it comes to lyrical content. Yeah he has a good mic pressence, and has some good punch lines, but so do those I just mentioned before him. And we can't forget the Godfather of all lyricist, Rakim. Funny that you're speaking on "gully"...when the gulliest thing Jay-Z compiled was "Reasonable Doubt ." Since then he's had the typical commercial appeal.


~Goodz~

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I see you have a biased opinion from your response. As I mentioned in mine, I wasn't attacking Jay-Z and that view takes nothing away from him as an artist. I'm just trying to give you an idea of the rest of the country outside of that little island you stay on called New York. As much as you hate to hear it Almighty, this country is not about New York. Let's not forget Pac has and had a big following in the South, Midwest and the West, just as with Big in the same areas. To say that Pac was over rated and doesn't fall into the the top 10, is a bit of a reach, and sounds like sour grapes. That's like me coming out saying..."Mann...Jay-Z sucks!" Pure 100% sour grapes. But you won't hear that from me, b/c I have a appreciation for all music and artist. But I can respect your opinnion though.

Jay-Z is nice, but doesn't fall in the category as an all time lyracist. Honestly....I don't see Jay messing with Face, Common, Andre Benjamin aka 3 Stacks, when it comes to lyrical content. Yeah he has a good mic pressence, and has some good punch lines, but so do those I just mentioned before him. And we can't forget the Godfather of all lyricist, Rakim. Funny that you're speaking on "gully"...when the gulliest thing Jay-Z compiled was "Reasonable Doubt ." Since then he's had the typical commercial appeal.

Not at all my dude, I am being biased, I USED to like Pac at one point. but let’s keeps it gully, dude was overrated as an emcee. People confuse his influence on the game with his skill and that kills me. I'm talking about rhyming; lyrics, flow, delivery and voice, dude's not even top 10. If it wasn’t for all the Coast Wars, the Death Row sh*t and the shootings, he wouldn’t be mentioned at the top.

As far as Jay, he's dropped SO many jewels since then man, so many. This dude has dropped track after track after track, he's killed beats from all the top producers, dude can flow fast or slow, club sh*t or hard sh*t, he’s done it all my dude. He’s said some of the best sh*t you’ll ever here, dunn-dunn. But since we can't do this post correctly I'll make another one...

TonyAlmighty wrote:

Not at all my dude, I am being biased, I USED to like Pac at one point. but let’s keeps it gully, dude was overrated as an emcee. People confuse his influence on the game with his skill and that kills me. I'm talking about rhyming; lyrics, flow, delivery and voice, dude's not even top 10. If it wasn’t for all the Coast Wars, the Death Row sh*t and the shootings, he wouldn’t be mentioned at the top.

As far as Jay, he's dropped SO many jewels since then man, so many. This dude has dropped track after track after track, he's killed beats from all the top producers, dude can flow fast or slow, club sh*t or hard sh*t, he’s done it all my dude. He’s said some of the best sh*t you’ll ever here, dunn-dunn. But since we can't do this post correctly I'll make another one...

See...you can't have a sensible convo with anyone on any type of topic when biased, because they're blind and make themselves look ignorant due to no credibility. But I'm not surprised...you have no credibility on other topics also.

But anyways I'll say this and leave it at that...if you have had to question 2Pac, I suggest you go back to the vault and listen closely to Pac's first 6 albums specifically picking up from Me Against The World, that was the rise of Pac and when he took his game to a whole different level. You speak alot on influence, and it looks like your feelings were hurt over the so called "East/West" beef. I speak beyond that...lyrical content along with message, mic pressence, and charisma...he's up there.

And when it comes to All Eyez on Me, there's been no other Double Disc CD that goes tit for tat, song for song that can compare with that album.


~Goodz~

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See...you can't have a sensible convo with anyone on any type of topic when biased, because they're blind and make themselves look ignorant due to no credibility. But I'm not surprised...you have no credibility on other topics also.

WTF are you talking about, I'm giving my own personal opinion to the topic. I've admitted that mant post I USED to be a Pac fan and he was a good emcee, just grossly overrated. You always speak of credibility when someone gives their opinion, I gives you points of conversation and because you don't agree with it, you say someone lacks credibility. Take it easy Jay Rome, your not always right. I'm juts not gonna hop on a bandwagon cause everyone else does, Pac was overrated, yeah I got the balls to say it.

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But anyways I'll say this and leave it at that...if you have had to question 2Pac, I suggest you go back to the vault and listen closely to Pac's first 6 albums specifically picking up from Me Against The World, that was the rise of Pac and when he took his game to a whole different level. You speak alot on influence, and it looks like your feelings were hurt over the so called "East/West" beef. I speak beyond that...lyrical content along with message, mic pressence, and charisma...he's up there.

I've heard em all and again dude is overrated, I never said he wasn't a good emcee, I can just name 20 or so that're better VERY easily as I did in my other post. I'm a grown man my dude, there's no feelings. I love Dre and Snoop and they were the enemy at one point, so that's not gonna fly. But people seem to confuse his "legend' and things outside the booth with him as an emcee. But I feel you, you like dude, that's cool. as an icon with the music, acting and controversy as a whole, yes he's a pop culture icon. But JUST emceeing, NAH!

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And when it comes to All Eyez on Me, there's been no other Double Disc CD that goes tit for tat, song for song that can compare with that album.

I'll put stop your right there with none other than Big. Listen to Life After Death again, I mean do I REALLY need to get into details?? It was a GREAT album, but BEST double CD, NAH!

TonyAlmighty wrote:

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See...you can't have a sensible convo with anyone on any type of topic when biased, because they're blind and make themselves look ignorant due to no credibility. But I'm not surprised...you have no credibility on other topics also.

WTF are you talking about, I'm giving my own personal opinion to the topic. I've admitted that mant post I USED to be a Pac fan and he was a good emcee, just grossly overrated. You always speak of credibility when someone gives their opinion, I gives you points of conversation and because you don't agree with it, you say someone lacks credibility. Take it easy Jay Rome, your not always right. I'm juts not gonna hop on a bandwagon cause everyone else does, Pac was overrated, yeah I got the balls to say it.

B/c it's a fact that when someone speaks of something that they're biased on, you're not getting a fair/equal argument, and that person has no credibility. It's simple..no biggie though.



Tony Almighty - 0

Speaking of Bandwaggons...oddly some could argue that those following Jay-Z now could be on a bandwaggon, b/c his marterial now is watered down with all the glitter and fame, compared to a young hungry Jay-Z of Reasonable Doubt.

But it's your opinion...just like that lame list you mentioned. But hey...who am I to argue with a guy that jams N.E.R.D.S???...

~Goodz~

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B/c it's a fact that when someone speaks of something that they're biased on, you're not getting a fair/equal argument, and that person has no credibility. It's simple..no biggie though.

So if that's the case then nothing said on here has any credibility, what makes your opinion any more valid than mine or anyone else’s?? NOTHING.

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Speaking of Bandwaggons...oddly some could argue that those following Jay-Z now could be on a bandwaggon

Because there's this notion in Hip Hop that whenever someone speaks against Pac or EVEN Big, it's wrong. Like I can't say Pac was overrated or that Jay took it further than Big. It was clear that Jay beat Nas, but because he's the underdog people will say he won. I don't buy into hype and popular opinion, I state my opinion.

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But it's your opinion...just like that lame list you mentioned. But hey...who am I to argue with a guy that jams N.E.R.D.S???...

And it's N*E*R*D, get your darts right and yeah I bump their sh*t, it's hot.

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, b/c his marterial now is watered down with all the glitter and fame, compared to a young hungry Jay-Z of Reasonable Doubt.

Do you listen to albums or just singles, Jay always has something in the club for the chicks, but listen to his albums in their entirety, the sh*t he's dropped cut after cut. EVERY album he has some of the best material you'll ever hear. Even Kingdom come and that was his worst album. Almost every commercially successful emcee makes a "commercial" joint to get radio airplay. When you get to a certain level you grow as an artist, when your worth $400M and your brokering major deals in all facets of business, it’s a little hard to channel your old project days my dude.

Biggie always made joints for chicks, he a had a few if you think about it. His second album was very different from his first, was Big commercial?? Watch Notorious, dude was talking about changing his style up and Life shows that. Now had he lived he could very well be where Jay is today commercial.

I like N*E*R*D LOL

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I like N*E*R*D LOL

Exactly, they make dope music. They mix hip hop, funk and rock for those who just go by what they see on BET and MTV and on the radio.

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So if that's the case then nothing said on here has any credibility, what makes your opinion any more valid than mine or anyone else’s?? NOTHING

B/c you start a discussion with a biased opinion. That's like me saying that "Apples are by far greater than oranges, and that's the law," when I have no credibility b/c my mindset is aligned with one subject...discounting the other and not open to other ideas/points.

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Because there's this notion in Hip Hop that whenever someone speaks against Pac or EVEN Big, it's wrong. Like I can't say Pac was overrated or that Jay took it further than Big. It was clear that Jay beat Nas, but because he's the underdog people will say he won. I don't buy into hype and popular opinion, I state my opinion.

There's no notion to that...your sub conscious just wants to be different and you want to represent the "Home Team." I can dig it. You rode with Pac once, but then decided to stop listening to him? That's suspect. That's like me liking the Cowboys, they don't win a playoff game in 12 seasons, and I stop liking them. That's fraudulent. Either you like someone/something or you don't. Credibility.

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Do you listen to albums or just singles, Jay always has something in the club for the chicks, but listen to his albums in their entirety, the sh*t he's dropped cut after cut. EVERY album he has some of the best material you'll ever hear. Even Kingdom come and that was his worst album. Almost every commercially successful emcee makes a "commercial" joint to get radio airplay. When you get to a certain level you grow as an artist, when your worth $400M and your brokering major deals in all facets of business, it’s a little hard to channel your old project days my dude.

Biggie always made joints for chicks, he a had a few if you think about it. His second album was very different from his first, was Big commercial?? Watch Notorious, dude was talking about changing his style up and Life shows that. Now had he lived he could very well be where Jay is today commercial.

Lol..Do I listen to albums or singles. Ok. You could've saved your little precious time with the heart felt comments you typed above there, sir. I've been on tapes since the age of 7 with this street ish since Too Short's "Players", from my older Bro and BDK. So there's nothing you can tell me about music son. Jay's been commercial...that was the biggest reason why Pimp C didn't want to do Big Pimpin initially, when he handpicked them of course, b/c they didnt want to ruin their underground persona and non commericial mode by being all on MTV.

All in all, if Pac & Big were still alive, Jay Z wouldnt be who is today. It took their deaths for him to step up in the limelight and claim the "King of NY." And if he was just as big then, he would've stood apart during that era...which he didn't. Which is why he can't be mentioned as the greatest of all times.

~Goodz~

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There's no notion to that...you're sub conscious just wants to be different and you want to represent the "Home Team." I can understand that. You rode with Pac once, but then decided to stop listening to him? That's suspect. That's like me liking the Cowboys, they don't win a playoff game in 12 seasons, and I stop liking them. That's fraudulent. Either you like someone/something or you don't. Credibility.

Don't talk to me about what I'm TRYING to say and my subconscious like I'm a clown or some sh*t. I listened to all dudes stuff despite the fact he was the "enemy" at the time. I never said I stopped listening, I just said I stopped being a fan. Dude made a HUGE shift in his message and what he was about, so it's fait that I stopped being a fan.

I mean your gonna tell me that people everyone who rode with Deion in Frisco was still there for him when he was with the Boys? And was it ones that didnt were wrong??? When dudes started talking about this cat being the greatest over the GOATS, then I had to study his catalog newer material for myself before I made any assumptions. So from one student to another, dont talk to me about credibility.

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So there's nothing you can tell me about music son. Jay's been commercial...that was the biggest reason why Pimp C didn't want to do Big Pimpin initially, when he handpicked them of course, b/c they didnt want to ruin their underground persona and non commericial mode by being all on MTV.

It all depends on your persepctive, if your talking hardcore underground dudes like UGK, then yeah Jay's commercial from their persepctive. If your talking mainstream, then no he's not, not at all. Just because you have commercial success doesn't mean your a commercially driven artist. Cause Common is doing ads for Lincoln does that take away any of his credibility???

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All in all, if Pac & Big were still alive, Jay Z wouldnt be who is today. It took their deaths for him to step up in the limelight and claim the "King of NY." And if he was just as big then, he would've stood apart during that era...which he didn't. Which is why he can't be mentioned as the greatest of all times.

Not true, whose to say that Big could've even taken it as far as Jay has??? We'll NEVER know. They were gonna do The Commission group togther with Big, Jay and Charlie Baltimore. Now that right there would've put them BOTH on different paths, so you can't assume that. Jay ushered in a new era in the 00's and took the game to a different level and still is. Jay was on his path as it is, he didnt all of sudden GET nice when Big died! Reasonable Doubt was one of the greatest albums of all time and Volume 1 was cold and started to cement his legacy.

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Don't talk to me about what I'm TRYING to say and my subconscious like I'm a clown or some sh*t. I listened to all dudes stuff despite the fact he was the "enemy" at the time. I never said I stopped listening, I just said I stopped being a fan. Dude made a HUGE shift in his message and what he was about, so it's fait that I stopped being a fan.

lol..Oh so now you support only people with a "message". Folks preaching social econmic change??? I didn't know Jay-Z took that path in his career? Get real. and it's "Fate" not "Fait". You don't like something one day, and the next day stop...unless it's just, not genuine. So either A) from the beginning, you may have just listened to him just to be listening to him, claiming "I listen to Pac"...or B) You liked him, and then stop b/c he started a little battle and you got your feelings involved.

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I mean your gonna tell me that people everyone who rode with Deion in Frisco was still there for him when he was with the Boys? And was it ones that didnt were wrong??? When dudes started talking about this cat being the greatest over the GOATS, then I had to study his catalog newer material for myself before I made any assumptions. So from one student to another, dont talk to me about credibility.

Smh. If someone rode for Deion during the time he was in San Fran, and not in Dallas, just tells me the only reason they rode for him was because he was a hired hand that spent 1 year in San Fran, opposed to the 5 years in Dallas, and Atlanta. That's not a good analogy at all Almighty. That doesn't stop folks from liking specific players. I have players in all sports that I like and support, that may not play for my favorite team. You either like something or you don't...and from your scenario, if they liked Deion from his short stay in San Fran, and not in Dallas, just tells me the liked Deion only because he was associated with their team.

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It all depends on your persepctive, if your talking hardcore underground dudes like UGK, then yeah Jay's commercial from their persepctive. If your talking mainstream, then no he's not, not at all. Just because you have commercial success doesn't mean your a commercially driven artist. Cause Common is doing ads for Lincoln does that take away any of his credibility???

Again..smmfh. Commercial, Mainstream, POP...it's all the same thing dude. Underground is on a totaly different platform. You're either UG or not. If you're not...you're trying to appeal to the Mainstream/Popular audience, have the proper backing...and by doing that you commercialize yourself. Commercial comes from the backing to appear on the media giants as MTV,BET,VH1, etc......Mainstream, is the crowd that follows it, your radio spins around the clock, your videos being played, that appeals to EVERYONE or the masses, and POP is what's popular. Pop Culture..that can range from R&B, HIP HOP, ROCK, etc...Popular. All 3 of those are totally different from the Underground scene, and to many it's more sacred to them, b/c it's less hands on their money, and less of headache.

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Not true, whose to say that Big could've even taken it as far as Jay has??? We'll NEVER know. They were gonna do The Commission group togther with Big, Jay and Charlie Baltimore. Now that right there would've put them BOTH on different paths, so you can't assume that. Jay ushered in a new era in the 00's and took the game to a different level and still is. Jay was on his path as it is, he didnt all of sudden GET nice when Big died! Reasonable Doubt was one of the greatest albums of all time and Volume 1 was cold and started to cement his legacy.

The fact remains, during a time when these two stood above the streets as King Kong & Godzilla, Jay Z did not emerge as that 3rd power. You can scream different era all you want, but they were all the same age, and hell Jay and Big even went to the same school at one point of time. You can't look at overall body of work, and question what happened here and after. That also is apart of his "legacy." Reasonable doubt was a great album, and his best...but during that time, it wasn't "stopping time" between Big & Pac.


~Goodz~

LMAO... have either of you guys considered that both your points are mute considering this is strictly an OPINION thread. I mean... you could both argue until your blue in the face... it won't change what either of you think. There is no absolute. You can state why you FEEL one is better than the other but hands down its really who you like the best and that is based solely on your own personal style... opinion... likes.

But either way... please carry on... I think I speak for everyone when I say this is highly highly entertaining... Love u guys.

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But either way... please carry on... I think I speak for everyone when I say this is highly highly entertaining... Love u guys.

Nah I'm good, I know who the GOAT's are as I stated earlier. Of course ALMIGHTY can keep going, but I'll let this one breath. I know what's up.

TonyAlmighty wrote:

Nah I'm good, I know who the GOAT's are as I stated earlier. Of course ALMIGHTY can keep going, but I'll let this one breath. I know what's up.

Exactly...Big & Pac are 1a & 1b.

~Goodz~

Why has no one mentioned Vanilla Ice??? I mean... NO ONE can compete with "Ninja Ninja RAP!!!"

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Exactly...Big & Pac are 1a & 1b

And here he goes with the dagger, SMMFH. It's expected Muffin, see the first rule of war is to understand your enemy. I'll grant Good a good death soon enough...

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Why has no one mentioned Vanilla Ice??? I mean... NO ONE can compete with "Ninja Ninja RAP!!!"

LMAO! The old Ninja Turtles was hot back in the days.